Pre-order GTAIV at Gamestop
Zelda Games *Social*
Playing through Chrono Cross.
|
McGray Posted 4/4/2008 7:17:30 PM message detail |
Having a blast. This game's a work of art. The music's fantastic, the characters are fun and distinct, the battle system is a good time and the atmosphere is terrific. I'm having a difficult time remembering all the storyline details, so now's a good time to be playing through it again. Unlike Chrono Trigger, which I've played through start-to-finish about 15 or so times, give or take, Chrono Cross I've only completed once. It took three times for me to get through the game after starting it; something came up the first two times and sidetracked me, and by the time I got back to it, it'd been too long and I felt disconnected from the game, so I had to start over. So yeah, I'm not nearly as familiar with this game as I am with Trigger, which I know inside and out. I started a brand-new game as opposed to going the New Game+ route, since I wanted to go through and remember all the bosses in their difficulty. It's cool to go through with your characters and have such a limited amount of Elements and power, and end the game with a huge pool of them and a feeling of triumph. So that's that. Any game discussion is welcome, just be sure to mark spoilers for those who've never played. --- All these years, I have been a woman masquerading as a man. ph33r ~Wacky |
|
cloud112 Posted 4/4/2008 7:30:03 PM message detail |
eh, I didn't really like it much, too much character selection and the story was way too confusing. This could be due to the fact that I was young, meh. --- How do you know on what you know if you don't even know what you know? |
|
MacDaddy Mike Posted 4/4/2008 8:45:45 PM message detail |
I was definitely too young the first time I played this game. It was like the first time I saw Mission: Impossible--I had no idea what the eff' was going on, and didn't appreciate the other nuances of the text. While Cross has, in my opinion, a lesser battle system than Trigger (read as: "I miss team-techs"), the story, characters, and everything about the presentation is, as you said, a work of art. Some argue that the characterization is sparse because of the vast amount of playable characters, but they fail to realise that the majority of them are only there for the sake of variety, and only there for the sake of gameplay--not story. The character types pretty much fall into three tiers--Serge, Kid, Lynx and Harle complete the first, the Dragoon family and their ties are the second, and the third tier is all characters like Poshul or Vann, most of which don't matter in the over-all scheme. Even still, the details surrounding those characters are sometimes expertly crafted. Vann's probably my favorite, as the differences between his Home World and Another World self are particularly interesting. I'd love to play through it again myself. I think I'm only missing Miguel and one other from my roster in the New Game+ file, but I think my next playthrough will be a fresh start, just as yours is. --- ZSB Nation: In Mac We Trust {Board 548} SPOOKAY!™ |
|
AdmiralViscen IV Posted 4/4/2008 8:58:13 PM message detail |
I should do this on PSP. --- Join in on One of GameFAQs' Most Historic Boards: ZSB http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=548 {εί} |
|
fanboymaster Posted 4/4/2008 10:01:35 PM message detail |
I'll never see eye to eye on this issue with the game's fans. |
|
McGray Posted 4/5/2008 3:47:03 PM message detail |
Do tell. I don't really care what goes on in this topic. Speak your mind, even negatively, just be respectful about it so a flame war doesn't break out. I'd rather prefer I don't have to close this topic. I plan on playing through the game with every character at least once. This new game I've started is going to be the first in a series of many, so I can go through the game over and over with the various characters and see what they're up to and what's behind them. That's what I intend, anyway, and it'll no doubt take quite a while for me to get all of them through from beginning to end. Usually my roster is something like Serge, Kid, Glenn, Guile and Sprig throughout the majority. I love those characters. This game will probably revolve around those characters as well, sans Guile because I decided to pick Pierre and forget about picking him up, which sucks. Guile rules. Next game I'll go through with a different set, but this time around it's looking like the regular set up. --- All these years, I have been a woman masquerading as a man. ph33r ~Wacky |
|
MacDaddy Mike Posted 4/5/2008 9:09:26 PM message detail |
Damn it, I meant Guile. Although Miguel is awesome in his own way. I always stick to sword users, so my parties usually include Glenn, Fargo, or the like. --- ZSB Nation: In Mac We Trust {Board 548} SPOOKAY!™ |
|
fanboymaster Posted 4/6/2008 4:41:49 AM message detail |
Spoilers, disjointed though they may be. I have a laundry list of things I personally dislike about the game. For starters, the game lacks a sense of direction in its story. It has been a while since I've played it and I can't tell you what the hell happened during 90% of the game (something about Dragons and a harlequin woman and Lynx switching bodies with Serge and a frozen flame and Schala merging or being eaten by Lavos and forming the Time Eater or something). The plot didn't seem cohesive to me and I found it so muddled that I can't even summarize what happened. Maybe I just have a crappy memory but I can outline most RPG's of the era that I played storywise. I don't find myself being particularly fond of any of the characters either. There are probably too many for the games own good. Did we really need Starky? Poshul? Mojo? Tons of other nonsense characters few people ever used? I could go on and on with this issue. This third one isn't so much a complaint as it is just a WTF, the game really feels almost nothing like Chrono Trigger. Everything from the tone of the story to the systems that underpin the game has a completely different feel and use. I didn't actually play Chrono Trigger until after I played and beat Chrono Cross and I feel it is a vastly superior game in most facets. Taken on its own merits it isn't terrible but it's confusingly plotted and filled to the brim with unnecessary underdeveloped characters. Don't get me wrong, I definitely like certain things about it. The soundtrack is absolutely amazing. No ifs ands or buts about it. The graphics are also beautiful for a PS1 game. There isn't anything particularly wrong with the battle system other then the minutiae making summons almost impossible to use with stupid amounts of planning. Overall though, the only thing that made a lasting impression on me was the music, I don't remember what happened in the game. I don't really care either. I've made attempts to replay it but it just bores me. That may be the saddest thing of all, I love to play Chrono Trigger, I don't love to play Chrono Cross. I hope that wasn't too inflammatory. |
|
MacDaddy Mike Posted 4/6/2008 2:36:51 PM message detail |
The characters complaint seems like such a nitpick to me. Yes, there are a lot of characters you can acquire in the game, but how many must you acquire? Over half are side-quests. You can disagree with the need to have so many characters in the game to begin with, and I'd agree with that, but I don't find them detrimental to the experience. --- ZSB Nation: In Mac We Trust {Board 548} SPOOKAY!™ |
|
McGray Posted 4/6/2008 2:40:56 PM message detail |
Not at all. I understand a lot of your complaints. The story does feel disjointed at first, but from what I remember (vaguely), it all comes together around end-game. It's been so long since my last playthrough that I can't even verify if that's a true statement, which is one reason I'm going through it again. From what I remember, though, it's got a very intimate connection with Chrono Trigger for those patient enough to seek and discerning enough to find. Though, it's not at all readily apparent at the first of the game, aside from certain references to the Zenan mainland and the Porre military. There are forty-some characters in CC, and some of them are useless, from what I understand; but some reviewers say that all the characters have something driving them and some motivation to them, and their stories are all diverse. I'm not sure how interesting or cohesive these stories may be, but that's another reason of my playthrough with all characters -- to find the motivations for them and decide for myself which of these characters are truly useless, versus which characters just seem useless on the surface (IE, Funguy, Poshul, Starky, Draggy, etc.). Summons took a lot of planning in the game, and necessarily so. They're insanely powerful. Once the field changes all to one color and then you bust out a level 8 Element, it's going to cause some insane damage. Summons were a very strategic maneuver, you couldn't simply use them flippantly and at whatever time as you could in other games. I have no problem with said games, and I've always had a blast with summoning. But that being said, I can't throw stones at Chrono Cross for trying something a little different that, in my opinion, worked. Total agreement on the soundtrack area, though. --- All these years, I have been a woman masquerading as a man. ph33r ~Wacky |
|
McGray Posted 4/6/2008 2:41:59 PM message detail |
Also, Mac has a good point. Sidequests are to the player's benefit, never the game's. If you don't feel inclined to find these characters and their back-stories, simply avoid them. --- All these years, I have been a woman masquerading as a man. ph33r ~Wacky |
|
fanboymaster Posted 4/6/2008 2:50:23 PM message detail |
I have no problem with a lot of characters, I like the Suikoden games for crying out loud. I just think that they didn't develop enough of them. Only a few of them have any real connection to the story beyond plot MacGuffins to get the rest of the characters through some new challenges. They proceed to be almost never mentioned again. I may be misremembering but this is what my memory is telling me |
|
McGray Posted 4/6/2008 2:53:30 PM message detail |
There are enough characters in the game that do have legitimately interesting stories, though, to rival many RPGs out there. The number of involved characters easily compares to Chrono Trigger's. If you just take all the characters you like from the game and ignore the rest, you'll have plenty of characters with deep, interesting storylines. You're focusing too much on the rough and not enough on the diamonds in it. --- All these years, I have been a woman masquerading as a man. ph33r ~Wacky |
|
fanboymaster Posted 4/6/2008 2:55:45 PM message detail |
Also, I used a summon once, in the entire game. They are definitely powerful but generally the only way to use one is to use it on an enemy that casts the same color magic as the summon meaning it doesn't have near the level of effectiveness it ought to unless you use one of the "turn ____" spells. |
|
fanboymaster Posted 4/6/2008 2:57:04 PM message detail |
I can count on one hand the characters I really liked but can you point out which ones had involved stories? It's been a while. |
|
SamusAran Posted 4/6/2008 7:30:29 PM message detail |
Chrono Cross is the perfect sequel to one of the greatest games ever created. The way that the story intertwines with Trigger's is vast to such a degree that I still get perplexed, even after having completed Cross and Trigger numerous times. If anyone brings up plot discussions I'll probably jump in with some opinions. Everyone already covered the music. This is the only video game soundtrack that I've ever purchased a tangible copy of, which I imported from Japan. The important characters, those belonging to "tier 1" and "tier 2" as Mac intelligently divided them, are varied, distinct and exciting. If a game can kill off characters and stir up emotion, it speaks for itself. Those in "tier 3" can be obtained for S&G, and the hate put on the strange characters is odd coming from pro-Trigger, anti-Cross enthusiasts. Is an English speaking cavewoman really sensical? A chivalrous, anthopomorphic frog? The only reason Ayla and Frog are accepted are because Trigger limited its character count thereby allowing opportunities to fill in complete background stories. Just because Cross gave the opportunity to collect a huge number of party members and didn't give reason behind all of them is no reason to hold it down. --- Ambition makes you look pretty ugly |
|
MacDaddy Mike Posted 4/6/2008 8:22:37 PM message detail |
The plot of Trigger is fine, good, even great, but Cross is what I would call a more "mature" storyline. That's not to belittle the awesomeness that is Trigger, but Cross took all of that and went miles deeper towards the centre of the Earth, exploring just about every nuance of Trigger's plot not just in narrative structure, but also philosophically. Without going into spoilers, just the background of the El Nido Archipelago is insanely unique and well-developed. I brought this up the last time there was a discussion of the two games, but I gotta say that, in terms of characters, there's no way that Cross loses. If you really think about it, the only characters in Trigger that get any sort of real development (until the final sidequests) are Frog and Magus, and the rest are stock. Crono, himself, doesn't seem to have any importance to the grand scheme of things. Serge, Kid, and Lynx are all huge characters, and like I said before the entire Dragoon family of characters (including Glenn, Viper, Karsh, Zoah, that other girl, Radius, Dario, and I'm sure I'm forgetting others) are all better developed and have more interesting involvement throughout the game than most of the party characters in Trigger. --- ZSB Nation: In Mac We Trust {Board 548} SPOOKAY!™ |
|
Angel JJ Posted 4/6/2008 10:34:33 PM message detail |
Fun fact: The first time I played Chrono Cross, I thought Vahn was one of the "main" characters and was all super stoked when I figured out how to get him to join my team because he appeared with Kidd and Serge in the opening scene. I only learned on my second playthru that the character is randomly selected. How embarrassing for me. --- I don't know if there's any point to it all, but I sure love hearing your voice Juggling Joker! |
|
fanboymaster Posted 4/7/2008 12:27:38 AM message detail |
If mature storytelling means it has to be ridiculously convoluted then take it, I honestly don't want it. I tried refreshing my memory with a plot summary and the only thing that really registered was "Wow... this story is completely ****ing ridiculous". I'm not going to argue the characters point. I've forgotten who half of the "important" characters are and all that leads me to believe is that they didn't make much of an impression on me. Doesn't mean the game is bad, it means the game isn't for me. However, this discussion has lead to one thing. I've got a bad habit of this. Every time I debate a game on the internet I always end up replaying it because I don't want to have any doubts about my indictments I make about the game so, I, fanboymaster, hereby declare that I will begin my replay of Chrono Cross tomorrow. I will approach it with an open mind and post my impressions of it in this topic and my game topic. Wish me luck. |
|
MissQuark Posted 4/7/2008 6:31:48 AM message detail |
I love it though I never finished it. I pop it in my PS1 sometimes just to listen to the musics, its awesome. --- I had a dream that I was eating a huge marshmallow, and when I woke up my pillow was gone. ~ Yeti |
|
SamusAran Posted 4/7/2008 12:36:43 PM message detail |
Good for you fanboymaster, it takes a big person to overcome one's ego and try to see something from someone else's point of view, or at least give it another shot. And for the future, do you like your crow baked, or fried? --- Ambition makes you look pretty ugly |
|
McGray Posted 4/7/2008 5:05:24 PM message detail |
concur'd w/ samuz Much respect for someone willing to try something again with an unbiased viewpoint. --- All these years, I have been a woman masquerading as a man. ph33r ~Wacky |
|
fanboymaster Posted 4/8/2008 8:33:58 AM message detail |
I prefer my crow cooked in pies actually. Minor setback, my copy keeps freezing at one specific point, I'll see what I can do and if worse comes to worst I'll see if I can have it resurfaced. |
|
McGray Posted 4/8/2008 4:58:11 PM message detail |
Entropy is the stupidest law of thermodynamics. --- All these years, I have been a woman masquerading as a man. ph33r ~Wacky |
|
AdmiralViscen IV Posted 4/14/2008 10:44:21 PM message detail |
--- Join in on One of GameFAQs' Most Historic Boards: ZSB http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=548 {εί} |
|
DeadDuel Posted 4/15/2008 4:28:06 PM message detail |
I agree with everything Mac is saying. Chrono Cross is a beautiful game. --- "People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs" |
|
McGray Posted 4/15/2008 6:28:52 PM message detail |
wtf, I said that. --- All these years, I have been a woman masquerading as a man. ph33r ~Wacky |
|
fanboymaster Posted 4/15/2008 6:36:32 PM message detail |
Haven't had the chance to replace my copy yet. |
|
DeadDuel Posted 4/15/2008 6:42:25 PM message detail |
I notice that many of the complaints about Chrono Cross are either nitpicking or unjustified. --- "People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs" |
|
Neeyahaha Posted 4/15/2008 7:26:22 PM message detail |
I have never played this game, and thus find it completely empty and unsatisfying. --- Boy and girls in cars. Dogs and cats on lawns. From here I can touch the sky. |
|
fanboymaster Posted 4/16/2008 3:14:37 AM message detail |
Cool, cool, I'll just sit here with my "nitpicking and unjustified" opinions. It's not like I backed them up and made clear they were subjective or anything. |
|
McGray Posted 4/16/2008 5:13:36 AM message detail |
Touche. --- All these years, I have been a woman masquerading as a man. ph33r ~Wacky |
